The Herrs: The Error That Went Viral

I got an email from friend of the blog Cliff Blau two months ago pointing out a discrepancy and some confusion regarding Joe Herr and Ed Herr.  I've been meaning to write something up about this ever since and never got around to it until now.  This is a convoluted story, so bear with me.

Over three years ago, I wrote a series of posts about the 1888 St. Louis Whites, a club that David Nemec, in The Beer & Whiskey League, called "a kind of farm team."  The club was owned by Chris Von der Ahe and played in the Western Association.  Essentially, I was looking for evidence of a relationship between Von der Ahe's Browns and his WA club in order to prove or disprove David's statement about the nature of the Whites, an opinion that Peter Morris also supported.  While I was initially sceptical, I think that I was able to prove that the Whites were essentially a proto-farm team for the Browns and that David and Peter were correct.

Now in the course of writing up the series on the Whites, I identified on of the players on the club as Ed Herr.  If you look at the tags in the right-side column of the blog, you'll notice a tag for Ed Herr that leads you to all of the posts I've written that mentions him.  I wrote the following brief sketch of Herr:

Ed Herr: shortstop; played three seasons in the majors between 1887 and 1890; played with the Browns after the breakup of the Whites (and again in 1890); after he was finished with baseball, Herr worked as a carpenter in St. Louis; he died in 1933, drowning in the Mississippi.

The problem here has multiple parts.  First, there was a 19th century baseball player by the name of Ed Herr but he never played for the Whites or the Browns.  Second, the player who did play with the Whites was named Joe Herr but Ed Herr's full name was Edward Joseph Herr.  Both Joe Herr, of the Whites, and Ed Herr, not of the Whites, were born in St. Louis, less than a decade apart.  Both Herrs died in St. Louis, exactly a decade apart.

What appears to have happened is that somehow Joe Herr became identified as Ed Herr, essentially confusing the two men.  The error appears in numerous places.  It's on my website.  If you search "Ed Herr" at Baseball-Reference, one of the entries that pop up is Joe Herr.  It's at Deadball Era, where Frank Russo provides an obituary from The New York Times that identifies Ed Herr as having died in 1933, information that matches Joe Herr's date of death at Baseball Reference.  It's at Find A Grave, which has entries for Edward Joseph Herr, Joseph "Joe" Herr and Edward Joseph "Eddie" Herr.  The Beer & Whiskey League identifies the Whites' player as Ed Herr (although David has told me that, like myself and just about everybody else, he made an error).  It's at BR-Bullpen.  It's at Wikipedia.  

This error, which essentially is the misidentification of Joe Herr as Ed Herr, is everywhere you look.  It is an error that went viral.  And I played a part in that, something which I have to take responsibility for.  I made a mistake and the information that I passed along about was wrong.  I take a great deal of pride in this website and I've spent years building my credibility as a historian and researcher.  I make a lot of jokes about how few readers I have but the truth is that there are a lot of people who read this blog and use it as a resource.  The people who visit my site trust me to provide them with accurate information and, in this case, I failed to do so.  Now, I don't want to be all dramatic about this but I did make a mistake and I think I played a role in spreading this error.  So I do feel the need to apologize and take steps to correct the error.

So here's what I know:

The guy who played with the Whites and the Browns in the late 1880s was always referred to as Joe Herr.  The St. Louis Globe-Democrat, Sporting Life, Inter-Ocean and various other papers always referred to him as Joe.  I have not seen one reference to this player being called Ed Herr.  Joe Herr played with the Whites in 1888 and with the Browns in 1888 and 1890.

Ed Herr played with various minor league clubs, beginning in the mid 1890s.  In the newspaper sources I've seen, he is always referred to as Ed, Eddie or Edward.  He was never, to the best of my knowledge, referred to as Joe.  Ed Herr never played with the Whites or the Browns.

Now as to their biographical data, I haven't bothered to run that down.  I assume that the data given for Joe Herr at Baseball-Reference and Find A Grave, which states that he was born on March 4, 1865 in St. Louis and died on July 12, 1933 in St. Louis, is correct.  Also, I assume the information for Ed Herr, which states that he was born on May 14, 1873 in St. Louis and died on July 18, 1943, is correct as well.  It does appear that their baseball records, as they appear at Baseball-Reference, are also correct.  But just to be clear, this is Joe Herr and this is Ed Herr.

Again, I apologize for my part in all of this but the best part of working in the media I do is that I can run corrections like this and make it a permanent part of the record.  To that end, I want to note that there is an entry for Joe Herr in Major League Baseball Profiles, 1871-1900, Volume 1 that was written by Peter Morris and David Nemec.  They wrote the following:

A carpenter by trade, Joe Herr grew up near where the St. Louis Maroons' Palace Park was built in 1884 and by 1885 was a member of the famed semi-pro Peach Pies.  He began 1886 with independent Bellville, IL, and then moved to St. Joseph of the Western League.  Signed for 1887 by the new Cleveland AA entry, Herr was released to Lincoln of the Western League in May of that season at his own request after deciding that he could not play his best with such a weak team. 

The following spring Herr was named captain of the Western Association St. Louis Whites...In a WA game on May 1, 1888, he became only the fourth man to hammer a ball over the LF fence in Sportsman's Park...Herr later also became the fifth and sixth man to perform this feat.  The latter blast came in an AA game on June 27 after he had joined the Browns once the Whites folded.  Having established that he had extraordinary power, Herr soon also demonstrated that he lacked the necessary range to play SS...Although Herr remained on the Browns for the remainder of 1888 and participated in the World's Series against the New York Giants, he collected just 172 ABs.  Since RBI were not an official stat then, no one could have realized that his retrospective 43 RBI would be 12 more than any other player in AA history compiled in a season with less than 200 ABs. 

Something appears to have happened to Herr that winter, or perhaps he simply lost motivation after the Browns dropped him the following spring.  Herr began 1899 in the Western Association but was released by Milwaukee after 26 games...He then played in the Central Interstate League with Evansville...Riddled by Players League defections, the Browns rehired him in June 1890 and then released him less than two weeks later to Waco of the Texas League...That July, Herr took an offer from Jamestown of the New York State League but regretted it almost as soon as he arrived in that tiny town and was back in St. Louis in August.  Over the next eighteen months or so he married and began a family, seemingly having wasted a large quantity of baseball potential.  He was an unemployed carpenter living apart from his wife, Marie, in a men's shelter when he drowned in 1933.

Go buy the book so David doesn't yell at me for copying and pasting such a big chunk of it.  And remember, Joseph Herr played for the Whites and the Browns and Edward Joseph Herr, no relation, was a career minor leaguer who never played for a major or minor league St. Louis club.  

                             

Still On Vacation

A quick and lazy post while I'm on vacation. Here's pictures of Ed Herr, Jim Devlin, and Tom Dolan's Old Judge baseball cards-three members of the 1888 St. Louis Whites who also played for the Browns that season.

A Kind Of Farm Team-The 1888 St. Louis Whites, Part 6

Part Six? Are you kidding me? I certainly can prattle on, can't I? That's a lot of words on a subject that I don't really feel I have a complete handle on. Anyway, on to the summation.

The original question at hand was "Were the St. Louis Whites a farm club for the St. Louis Browns?" David Nemec called them "a kind of farm club" and Peter Morris wrote that Von derAhe "operated the St. Louis Whites of the Western Association as a farm club..." So the general consensus among baseball historians appears to be that the Whites were indeed a farm club. I would have to agree that the evidence supports this consensus.

However (and for Pete's sake, why can't I just reach a conclusion and stick to it without having to qualify it?), I would have to say that Von der Ahe had other motives in operating the Whites beyond the desire to put together a farm club and develop young talent. He certainly was interested in having another gate attraction for Sportsman's Park. While the Whites failed to draw a crowd in their short history, the appeal of having a team playing at home while the Browns were on the road is obvious.

While I certainly see the flaws in the argument, I still believe that the idea that the Whites were a Western Association stalking horse for Von der Ahe's baseball interests has merit. Von der Ahe saw the threat of the Eastern clubs breaking off from the NL and AA and forming their own league as a real possibility and it makes sense that he would make plans to deal with the fallout from such a threat. The Whites and the WA can be seen as central to Von der Ahe's plans to establish a Western major league if and when the Eastern teams made good on their threat.

So, yes, the Whites were a farm club for the Browns and, if the intent was to identify and develop future major league players, they were a successful one despite only existing for part of one season. The Browns were able to identify and sign Beckley, Staley, Devlin, Herr, and Crooks, all good young players. If the Browns had kept those players and continued to develop young talent, they most likely would have had more success in the 1890's then they did.

But the team also existed to further Von der Ahe's business interests. They were designed to draw a crowd to Sportsman's Park when the Browns were out of town and they were a fall-back position in the event that the contemporary major league structure fell apart. So while the Whites can be identified as a farm club, they certainly were more than that.

A Kind Of Farm Team-The 1888 St. Louis Whites, Part 5

I'm done speculating on the nature of the Whites. Let's take a look at the roster.

The following players were members of the St. Louis Whites in 1888:

Tug Arundel: catcher; played on and off in the major leagues between 1882 and 1888; after the breakup of the Whites, Arundel was released and received an offer from the Kansas City Association team although he ended up with the Washington Nationals.

Jake Beckley: first base; a heck of a player, Beckley was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1971; he played 20 seasons in the major leagues between 1888 and 1907, ending his career with the Cardinals; after the breakup of the Whites, he was sold, along with Harry Staley, to Pittsburgh for $4500.

Ernie Burch: outfielder; played with Cleveland in 1884 and Brooklyn in 1886 and 1887.

Bart Cantz: catcher; played three seasons in the major leagues between 1888 and 1890; has a career batting average of .157; The Sporting News reported in June of 1888 that, after the breakup of the Whites, Cantz was going to join the Browns but it appears that he was sold to the Baltimore Association team.

Jack Crooks: third base; played eight seasons in the major leagues between 1889 and 1898, including two stints with the Browns (1892-1893 and 1898); was the manager of the Browns in 1892; led the NL in walks in 1892 and 1893, finished second in the AA in walks in 1890 and 1891; his 136 walks in 1892 set a major league record that stood until 1911; Crooks was sold to Omaha for $500 upon the breakup of the Whites.

Jim Devlin: pitcher; played four seasons in the major leagues between 1886 and 1889; played with the Browns after the breakup of the Whites and ended his major league career with the team the next year; I wrote a little bit about Devlin before.

Tom Dolan: catcher; played seven seasons in the major leagues between 1879 and 1888; played with the Browns in 1883 and 1884 before jumping to the Maroons (for whom he played in all three seasons of their existence); after the breakup of the Whites, Dolan rejoined the Browns; played baseball in St. Louis in four different leagues: the AA, UA, NL, and WA; after he retired from baseball, Dolan served as a fireman in St. Louis; I've written about Dolan a few times, most notably here.

Ed Herr: shortstop; played three seasons in the majors between 1887 and 1890; played with the Browns after the breakup of the Whites (and again in 1890); after he was finished with baseball, Herr worked as a carpenter in St. Louis; he died in 1933, drowning in the Mississippi.

Hunkey Hines: outfielder; born Henry Fred Hines; played one season in the majors with Brooklyn in 1895; after the breakup of the Whites, Hines was released and signed with a club in Rockford, where he lived the rest of his life.

Jerry McCormick: outfielder; played two seasons in the majors in 1883 and 1884.

Parson Nicholson: second base; born Thomas C. Nicholson, also called "Deacon"; played three seasons in the major leagues between 1888 and 1895; after the breakup of the Whites, he was released and it appears that he then signed with Detroit.

Harry Staley: pitcher; played eight years in the majors between 1888 and 1895; he finished his career playing with the Browns; after the breakup of the Browns, Staley was sold to Pittsburgh, along with Beckley, for $4,500; when Von der Ahe was attempting to sell the club, the player that most teams wanted to buy was Staley.

C. Alcott: shortstop; some sources list his first name as Charles.

Kenyon: outfielder; some sources list him as J.J. Kenyon or O.J. Kenyon; after the breakup of the Whites, Kenyon remained in St. Louis although it was expected that he would sign with a team in the Ohio League.

Fred Nyce: outfielder, pitcher; after the breakup of the Whites, Nyce received offers Kalamazoo and Canton and it was assumed by TSN that he would sign with the Kalamazoo.

Sproat: pitcher.


I put together this roster based on box scores, articles in TSN, and the Old Judge baseball card series. All players on this list either played in a game for the Whites, was mentioned as a member of the team, or were identified in the Old Judge set as a member of the Whites. I can state with certainty that the following players played in games for the Whites: Nicholson, Beckley, Crooks, Burch, Herr, Hines, Kenyon, Dolan, Staley, Sproat, Gantz, and Nyce. There is no record that I've found of Alcott, McCormick, Devlin, or Arundel playing in a game for the club.

Looking at the roster, it doesn't seem to be that bad of a team. There was a nice mix of veterans and youth. I would say that if the intent was to create a farm team and develop talent then the Browns did a good job putting the team together. Out of the sixteen players identified as members of the Whites, Beckley and Staley were outstanding young players who the Browns would have been wise to hold on to. Ed Herr looks like a good young prospect and I know that many clubs were interested in him. What happened to his career, I can't say but I'd certainly like to find out. Jim Devlin also was a young guy who looked like a promising major leaguer and then disappeared. Jack Crooks was twenty-two years old in 1888 and went on to have a nice career. So by my count and evaluation, that's five legitimate major league prospects on a sixteen man roster, three of whom went on to have better than average major league careers and one of whom was a Hall of Famer. I don't think you can do better than that and it speaks to the Browns' outstanding scouting ability.

Tomorrow, I'm going to try and wrap this thing up.

Person Jack Crooks

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A Kind Of Farm Team-The 1888 St. Louis Whites, Part 3

We can see evidence of a farming relationship between the Browns and Whites, with players moving between the two teams, and Peter Morris has written that this relationship fits within a general 19th century trend towards the establishment of the farm system. This seems sufficient to declare that the Whites were indeed a Browns' farm club. However, there is some contradictory evidence that most be dealt with.

In the November 9, 1887 issue of Sporting Life, there is an article that discusses Von der Ahe's purchase of the Whites and mentions that Tom Loftus would be the club's manager. In this article, Von der Ahe explicitly states that the Whites would not be run as the Browns' farm club. What are we to make of this? It's possible that Von der Ahe was simply being disingenuous. Some of the farming relationships developed by major league clubs in 1887 had been controversial and many stated at the time that they were illegal. So Von der Ahe, in denying a farming relationship between the Browns and Whites, may have simply been trying to cover up the true nature of the relationship in an attempt to avoid controversy. It's also possible, however, that Von der Ahe was stating the truth and that while there may have been the appearance of a farming relationship, the intent to establish a farm club did not exist.

If Von der Ahe did not intend for the Whites to exist as a farm club, what was the purpose of his ownership of the club? It is entirely possible that the Whites existed for their own sake-to play baseball, to win games, to capture a pennant, to draw fans to Sportsman's Park. On February 25, 1888, The Sporting News wrote that "Talking of the coming season's prospects Mr. Von der Ahe said they were unusually bright. He will have two splendidly equipped teams in the field, and when one is away the other will be found at work entertaining the local patrons." I don't think then that it's outside the realm of possibility that Von der Ahe established the Whites simply as another tenant for his ballpark. St. Louis had shown to a certain extent that it was able to support two teams. In 1884, the Browns and the Maroons finished first and fourth among all major league teams in attendance. While the Maroons' attendance fell off in their final two years, between 1884 and 1886 the two clubs drew over 800,000 fans between them. With the Browns drawing almost 250,000 fans in 1887, it's conceivable that Von der Ahe believed that there was room in the St. Louis baseball market for another team and that he could profit from the addition of that team.

However, the Whites, most likely as a result of their poor play, did not draw well and, at the same time, the Browns' attendance fell by almost 100,000 due to the St. Louis fans' displeasure over Von der Ahe's fire sale after the 1887 season. The market was unable to sustain both teams and Von der Ahe quickly decided to dispose of the Whites. It's Von der Ahe's quick decision to sell the Whites and the manner in which he went about it that casts a great deal of doubt on the status of the Whites and Von der Ahe's original intent with regards to the team.

The Whites first game was played against Milwaukee at Sportsman's Park on April 28, 1888. Less than a month later, Von der Ahe was actively attempting to sell the team. By May 27th, Von der Ahe was in serious negotiations with both "Mr. McClintock of Denver and Mr. Keith of Lincoln" to sell his Western Association franchise and all of its players. The Sporting News explained that Von der Ahe had received "good cash offers for several members of the team and notably for (Harry) Staley. He had not accepted any of those for the simple reason that he did not care to break up the team, a move that would be of irreparable damage to the Western Association. He believed that the only fair thing to do was to transfer the team bodily to some other city and he would only do this after receiving fair compensation."

This raises several questions. If Von der Ahe was operating the Whites as a farm club, why was he attempting to sell the franchise and the players less than four weeks after the club began playing? If the goal of owning the Whites was to operate a reserve club and develop players for the Browns, why was Von der Ahe pulling the plug in May? I understand that the Whites were drawing poorly and Von der Ahe was running the operation at a loss but wouldn't that loss have been acceptable to a certain extent if the Whites were operating as a farm club for the Browns? Even if the Whites were losing money, how substantial could the loss have been after only four weeks of operation? As far as selling the players is concerned, if the Whites were simply a farm club for the Browns why would Von der Ahe not simply sell off the players and fold the team? He had offers on the table for the players so why not take them? Why was he concerned about the viability of the Western Association? Why was his original intent to sell the franchise and the players?

While Von der Ahe originally wanted $10,000 for the franchise and players, by the first week of June he had reached an agreement with James Keith to sell the team for $7,000. At the time of the agreement, Von der Ahe had offers on the table from various teams to purchase members of the Whites. These included offers from Louisville, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Wilkes-Barre. If he had wanted to, Von der Ahe could have sold off the players at the beginning of June and received more money than Keith was offering him.

In the end, the agreement with Keith fell apart and McClintock never raised his offer over $5,000 so Von der Ahe, on June 20th, disbanded the Whites and sold off several of the players. He received $4500 from Pittsburgh for Jake Beckley and Harry Staley and sold Jack Crooks to Omaha for $500. Tom Dolan, Ed Herr, and Jim Devlin all joined the Browns. Bart Cantz also was assigned to the Browns but was transferred to Baltimore in a transaction for which I have no details. So out of the breakup of the Whites, Von der Ahe received, at the very least, $5,000 plus Dolan, Herr, and Devlin. If he had sold those three players, Von der Ahe would have most likely gotten well over the $7,000 that Keith had offered him for the entire franchise. The rest of the players were released.

It's Von der Ahe's own words and actions in 1887 and 1888 that raises doubts about the status of the Whites. While his comments that the Whites were not a farm club can be dismissed, he also stated in late May of 1888 that he saw no difference between the Whites and Browns and that he treated both clubs the same. At no time did Von der Ahe ever state or imply that the Whites were a farm club and were subservient to the needs of the Browns-this at a time when farming relationships were accepted and in the open.

Von der Ahe's attempts to pursue the viability of the Western Association is rather fascinating and the possible explanation for this also cast doubt about his intent regarding the Whites. I'll talk about this tomorrow.