tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5985668569918053928.post6628358248864915839..comments2024-01-24T05:19:09.805-06:00Comments on This Game Of Games: An 1858 Match Game In AltonJeffrey Kittelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02367989375750209078noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5985668569918053928.post-3489485187760641482009-01-18T14:11:00.000-06:002009-01-18T14:11:00.000-06:00I appreciate the time and effort that you've put i...I appreciate the time and effort that you've put into responding to all of this, Richard. You've certainly been extremely helpful. I'm going to respond in more detail when I have more time and get a chance to more carefully read what you wrote.Jeffrey Kittelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367989375750209078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5985668569918053928.post-39909246817577858592009-01-17T20:57:00.000-06:002009-01-17T20:57:00.000-06:00You are probably right about the two reports being...You are probably right about the two reports being from one person. The question of where the Courier got its material is just as valid as that of Porter's. Did the Courier have a reporter at the game? (Did the Courier have reporters, or was it a one man operation?) (I'm not claiming to actually know anything specifically about this paper. I'm riffing off of small town weeklies of this period.) It is entirely plausible that some enterprising member of the ball club wrote up the game and sent it to both the local paper and to Porter's. The respective editors then would edit it to fit their needs.<BR/><BR/>As for the difficulty of internalizing the base/town ball vocabulary, you are far from the first. <BR/><BR/>By way of fair warning, I should point out that this is my personal research project and conclusion. I have been pushing it to anyone willing to listen, but it is not the received version. I think I am on solid ground, but I'm prejudiced in this matter.<BR/><BR/>The received version is a bit muddy, but typically goes something like this: baseball evolved from rounders, with townball as an intermediary. What was townball? It is identified with the Massachusetts game. So when you see talk of Alexander Cartwright changing the ballfield from a square to a diamond, the assumption is that pre-Knickerbocker baseball in New York was something very like the Mass. game. Taking this a step further, there are otherwise excellent books which assume that any reference to "town ball" in any part of the country means the Mass. game. It is variously assumed either that the Mass. game was uniformly played throughout the country (and therefore only identified with Massachusetts through the historical accident that Massachusetts clubs codified it) or that most of the country was baseball terra incognita, with the NY and the Mass. games competing to fill the vacuum.<BR/><BR/>My contention is that the received version of the previous paragraph is pretty much entirely wrong. I can go into as much or as little detailed discussion of the facts in evidence as you want. But getting back to internalizing this scheme, you likely are used to the received version, and so you automatically interpret a text by fitting it into the received version. I am reminding you (gently, I hope) of the new and improved Hershberger Egomaniac Version, and placing the text in this scheme.<BR/><BR/>There are two key concepts to internalize: (1) Early baseball was a family of closely related games, played throughout Anglophone North America (this glosses over Britain, as not relevant to the current discussion). There were innumerable local versions until displaced by the New York version in the years following the Civil War. (2) The members of the baseball family went by different names, depending on region. The three that matter in the American context are, roughly, (a) "base ball", generally used in New York state, New England, Canada, and the Great Lakes basin, (b) "round ball", used in New England (alongside "base ball"), and (c) "town ball", used everywhere else (i.e. Ohio and Mississippi river basins, most of Pennsylvania, and the South). There is no evidence that "base ball" and "town ball" form branches of a family tree: this is, forms called "town ball" are no more likely to be similar to one another than they are to forms called "base ball". It is strictly a matter of dialect.<BR/><BR/>If anyone has any further questions, my office hours are posted...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5985668569918053928.post-45299544488839820202009-01-17T14:36:00.000-06:002009-01-17T14:36:00.000-06:00The similarity in language between the two pieces ...The similarity in language between the two pieces certainly leads me to think that there is a common source for the material. Most likely it was written by the same person, submitting the material to two different papers, or the earlier source was submitted to Porter's. Of course, it could be a coincidence and I'm overanalyzing it. There really is only so many ways to briefly write up an account of a game. <BR/><BR/>Your point about "base ball," "Alton base ball," "town ball," etc is well taken and understood. The problem is internalizing it without succumbing to cognitive dissonance. <BR/><BR/>It honestly seems sometimes that no matter how much I look at this, how much I read, or how much I think about it, this material is still just ridiculously alien to me. There are times when I think I'm over it and have learned to put aside my modern frame of reference and accept this 19th century world on its own terms. But then something else comes down the line to humble me.Jeffrey Kittelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367989375750209078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5985668569918053928.post-75178987453725447902009-01-17T13:26:00.000-06:002009-01-17T13:26:00.000-06:00I would be astonished if Porter's used the Alton W...I would be astonished if Porter's used the Alton Weekly Courier as a direct source, simply because the Courier was a small paper in a small town far far away from New York. The usual procedure would be that someone from the Alton club sent a report to Porter's. The New York sporting weeklies were generally willing to give space to such things.<BR/><BR/>I'm not entirely comfortable with the characterization that the Alton folks "happened" to call their game "base ball". They called it "base ball" because it *was* base ball. At that time "base ball" meant a family of closely related games, with different regions playing different variants. The folks in New York played the New York variant. The folks in Alton played the Alton variant. The New York game prevailed over the Alton game, but that doesn't make the New York version any more entitled to the name "base ball".<BR/><BR/>The only surprising thing here is that the baseball family of games went by several regional variant names, and Alton is a region where I would expect the name to be "town ball". But "base ball" and "town ball" were synonyms, in the same way that "truck" and "lorry" are synonyms today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com